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Post by Champ on Oct 21, 2012 11:52:15 GMT -5
I still think Ryback is winning. I just think he's going to lose it at Survivor Series or the December PPV in a fucked up way. Or something TNAish like Ryback doesn't want the belt and gives it up and we have a tournament
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Post by Champ on Oct 21, 2012 20:52:17 GMT -5
WWE creative is having a hard time coming up with a finish for the Ryback vs. CM Punk match at Hell In a Cell.They don’t want to have Ryback lose but also do not want to switch the WWE Title before the Royal Rumble in January. They also don’t want to end the pay-per-view with a screwjob and obviously can’t do a DQ finish inside the Cell. Officials also do not want to end the show with Big Show vs. Sheamus so it appears they are going to end up having to do something that they do not want to do.
Jesus, who the hell couldn't see this predicament coming? I think I figured it out though. TLC PPV is in December. They can have Ryback win the belt next week. Then he can slip on a banana peel in the tables match or Punk can climb the ladder in a ladder match. That way, even though he technically loses, they can still go on about how no one has ever pinned him or made him submit. There's your booking, with Punk as champ at the Rumble for the Rock
There has been a lot of online speculation about Brock Lesnar interfering to cost Ryback the match with the idea of Ryback vs. Lesnar at WrestleMania 29. This would create a number of issues including messing up plans for Triple H’s revenge on Lesnar and the extra cost of using Lesnar on another pay-per-view above what he is contracted for.
Wow, this Ryback push is really throwing rocks in the bicycle chain of booking huh?
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Post by Velkontés on Oct 27, 2012 11:31:37 GMT -5
Man, they make it sound like "messing up Triple H's revenge on Lesnar" is a bad thing.
To be honest, the simplest way out of it is to have Ryback beat Punk. Have him beat The Rock at the Rumble too. The Rumble match is the big draw for that PPV anyway.
You can still do Rock vs Punk at Wrestlemania, and then have either Ryback vs Cena or even Ryback vs Undertaker (by having Undertaker win the Rumble as #30).
I mean, why not? I don't think Punk is going to get any more over than he is now, he's had a good run, does he need the belt any more? This is a chance for them to make a new star. And if he bombs or fails a piss test then someone else will get the rub of beating him for the title.
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Post by MasterSnit on Oct 28, 2012 17:46:49 GMT -5
I'm gradually catching up with things, but I've been out of the loop recently. I still think they will opt for a screwy ending where Punk manages to keep the title, but Ryback technically wins or doesn't lose.
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Post by Velkontés on Oct 29, 2012 6:43:17 GMT -5
So they didn't want to end the PPV with a TNA finish, and then proceeded to end the PPV with the most TNAish finish imaginable?
Christ, if they were going to do a stupid finish, they should have sent a fucking army in there to beat Ryback down.
Y'know, I thought I hadn't seen much of you lately.
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Post by Champ on Oct 29, 2012 18:22:41 GMT -5
See this was one of those situations that makes you wonder what the hell Vince was thinking by putting Ryback in this match in the first place. Absolutely NOTHING good came out of that main event for anybody, Punk, Ryback, or the fans.
SM told me he read that Vince wanted to hot shot the belt to Ryback and Triple H said it wasn't the right move because it would just garner resentment towards his character because it was too early. I agree with Trips. But Ryback never should've been in this match to begin with. That's why I say, WTF was Vince thinking and that's why I thought Cena might just take his place
Last night = SHITTY BOOKING
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Post by Naitch on Oct 29, 2012 21:00:48 GMT -5
One really has to wonder if Orton vs Punk and Ryback vs Del Rio would have been a bad way to have had for the HIAC card. Ryback kills Del Rio and Punk can get a clean win, again over Orton in a serviceable match.
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Post by Velkontés on Oct 30, 2012 9:26:20 GMT -5
I think having a designated "Hell in a Cell" PPV finally came back to bite them in the ass. Because once Cena got hurt they had no Cell match. Punk could have just nutshotted Ryback and lost by DQ if it was a regular match.
See, that sounds like BS to me. Resentment amongst who, exactly? The 20% (probably an overestimate, too) who like Punk or the 80% who want to see him get his ass handed to him? You reckon the kids didn't want to see Ryback win the title?
I mean, I know we joke that they have no long-term planning, but they don't even seem able to plan in the medium-term either.
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Post by Velkontés on Nov 1, 2012 17:17:21 GMT -5
The original plan for Hell in a Cell was to have Ryback pin CM Punk clean and win the WWE title. He would hold the belt through Survivor Series and lose in a multi-man gimmick match at TLC where he wouldn't have to be pinned or submitted. Vince McMahon settled on this plan on October 25, just three days before the PPV.
Then the next day, he decided to keep the belt on CM Punk because Punk's long title reign was more important than Ryback's undefeated streak, which isn't necessary to play him up as a monster. WWE has spent so much time focusing on Punk's title reign that felt it would be better to keep the belt on him until the Royal Rumble so his match with The Rock will have higher stakes.
Once the decision was made to keep the belt on Punk, WWE then tried to come up with ways for Ryback to lose without looking weak. WWE considered several options before going with crooked referee Brad Maddox, including run-ins from Brock Lesnar, Big Show, Mark Henry and even Vince McMahon himself.
If that's true (which, well, wrestling websites, so... big "if"), then it really makes you wonder if Vince McMahon is a genius or just dumb lucky.
I mean, why is he still pondering all of this three days before the fucking show?
Wouldn't that PPV be the perfect opportunity to introduce 3 or 4 of those indie-internet-darlings from the minor leagues (heck, throw Cesaro in there too if you want), have them interfere with Ryback, and have Punk lead a stable of Indie Internet Darlings who are all about the wrestling, and "change" and ice cream bars, yo.
Sure, have Vince McMahon do one of his random, illogical heel turns instead.
Geez.
Have I mentioned recently that TNA is stupid? Because WWE is stupid.
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Post by MasterSnit on Nov 1, 2012 18:45:05 GMT -5
I'm also not a fan of the themed events. Hell in a Cell is a match that should be used to close the book on a feud, or when a feud has become really heated. Not for some match that was thrown together two weeks earlier because Cena's arm wouldn't reconfigure in triplequick time.
As for Vince's methods, I think he and WWE have operated like that for years. They deliberate and often only make the final decision on the day of the show.
There was plenty of ways they could have played the match. Remember when Punk made the Undertaker "tap" because the ref screwed up? They could have did something like that. Personally, I would have booked Heyman to slip Punk a tranquillizer gun through the cage and did a finish similar to the one with Kurt Angle and Big Show from years ago.
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Post by Velkontés on Nov 2, 2012 7:13:17 GMT -5
As for Vince's methods, I think he and WWE have operated like that for years. They deliberate and often only make the final decision on the day of the show. I can understand that for twice-weekly episodes of TV and all that, but for the main event of a big PPV? They really should have a plan, even if it's only one or two PPVs ahead. If they need to make last-minute tweaks to Raw to service that, or to capitalise on something unexpected (e.g. the crowd going apeshit for Ryback) then fine. Point A in this instance was "people like Ryback a lot" and Point B should be "let's make Ryback a star". A consideration is "Punk is also an asset". You then plan on how to get from Point A to Point B. I mean, how is Ryback jobbing the title back to Punk in a TNA Knockouts Title Change Special going to achieve any of those goals? Set one goal - just one goal Vince - and achieve it.
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Post by Naitch on Nov 2, 2012 13:24:51 GMT -5
I like the idea of Indie Darlings That Love Ice Cream Bars. It would have been a great spot to have Dean Ambrose, Kashius Ohno and whatever name Pac is going by in FCW to make some noise. Hell, if you didn't even want to do much with them, Pac is light and you could just have Ryback toss him around and look impressive.
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Post by Velkontés on Nov 2, 2012 17:10:49 GMT -5
It makes more sense than doing an angle with a referee, doesn't it?
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Post by Champ on Nov 4, 2012 17:22:50 GMT -5
I think the themed events suck too. Well, I'll be a little more lenient and say, I'm not a fan of themed events where they booked themselves into corners. Money in the Bank is a perfect example. It was such an awesome selling point for Wrestlemania. I started looking forward to that being a HUGE midcard payoff for the year. I also liked that after the guy won, he can choose which champion to rape. Now we have a MITB PPV and forced title changes on guys who aren't even ready because of it. It's one thing to pick that one guy to push after Wrestlemania with the briefcase for the WWE's new year, but to just pick TWO midcarders in the summer that deserve it the most just for the sake of having a MITB PPV, makes stupid sense to me. Now MITB lost it's luster for me. Dolph Ziggler, as great as he is in the ring, is not ready for a world title, and Cena already blew it in one week. It's pointless now
Now take Survivor Series. There's a million ways out of having a certain team win or lose regardless of who's on it. Then there's the Royal Rumble. Shit, you need a #1 contender for wrestlemania anyway, may as well have a huge event for it. That's cool too. But the other ones are just pointless, especially when Trips and Taker had the great HIAC match of all time at mania and we saw the WORST HIAC match of all time at.....a HIAC PPV!
Did V mention WWE is.....Oh wait, he did
There really were better ways to go about it than a ref screwjob, especially when the ref means nothing to no one. Also, I mentioned it before, WhyTF was Ryback in this match if they didn't want him winning the belt? Since they did put him in the match, I came up with the same solution Vince agreed on the 25th. Just have Ryback win and have Punk climb a ladder in December. Or, like MS said, have Heyman slip something to Punk to use on Ryback, that would put down a horse, let alone a human being. That would've been a more acceptable heel win.
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Post by Velkontés on Nov 7, 2012 15:38:14 GMT -5
I mean, I know we joke that they have no long-term planning, but they don't even seem able to plan in the medium-term either. Or an entire week ahead. "Eh, screw it, put Cena in the main event instead." They have no idea what they're trying to do any more. If (when) Cena gets tired of this shit then Vince is fucked.
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